C’est un vendredi calme et je suis descendu dans un terrier de lapin. Lors des récentes élections au HoF, Hernández a fait un grand bond en avant dans le nombre d’électeurs et il existe une possibilité réaliste que nous puissions le voir élu au HoF. Cependant, je ne sais pas pourquoi il reçoit ce genre d’amour alors que Santana a connu une meilleure carrière en jouant moins de temps qu’Hernandez (15 ans pour Hernandez contre 12 ans pour Santana).
Y a-t-il quelque chose qui me manque ? J’ai grandi en regardant ces deux-là quand j’étais enfant et je pensais qu’ils étaient tous les deux incroyables, mais cela n’a pas de sens que Santana soit sur le bulletin de vote une année avec 2,4 % des votants contre 46,1 % des votants pour Hernandez.
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Par Jantzen123
29 Comments
Johan Santana is criminally underrated. That said, neither has the longevity for the hall in my opinion
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Santana was on a ridiculously stacked ballot while Felix has been on two weak ballots.
That’s really all there is to it.
Felix did hit a grand slam of Santana, maybe that’s it.
There seems to be growing acceptance for big hall over small hall these days. That probably helps Felix now.
Because the hall of fame is kinda stupid and we don’t need it as the framework for greatness in baseball
Before peak performance made it’s big headway into the HOF voting scene, the ballot Johan went on was *stacked.*
Here’s the players on his ballot that eventually made it into the HOF: Chipper, Vladdy, Thome, Hoffman, Edgar, Mussina, Walker, McGriff, Kent, Wagner, Rolen, Andruw.
Now include the controversial yet deserving consideration options: Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Vizquel (who at the time wasn’t outed as an awful person), Ramirez, Sheffield, and Sosa.
It’s very clear that someone who had an unfortunately short impact career with a huge peak would fall off immediately before players of his kind were given stronger consideration.
Felix getting 2020s SP standards while playing in the 2000s
Yeah, no question Santana should get in if Hernandez does.
My only observation over the years is that everyone liked King Felix. He’s one of the few players where everyone had good things to say about him. That shouldn’t determine if he gets in or not though, but clearly, personality plays some sort of factor in players not getting in.
They change their minds every couple of years , just give it time
Neither have the career length for The Hall .
There’s a fairly good argument Johan Santana was robbed of the Cy Young in 2005 because voters cared so much about wins, and Bartolo Colon won 21 games. But if you look at every other statistic, Santana was head and shoulders above Colon that year.
If he’d won 3 straight Cy Youngs (instead of just the 2 separate awards), he’d probably have a much much greater case as he’d be in pretty exclusive company.
700 IP is a lot, despite the near-identical WAR totals I do think it makes a difference.
Why no love for Larry Bernandez but he has the exact same stats as Felix?
Johan hit the ballot at a bad time, combo of a crowded ballot and voters not being ready to vote in that type of guy at the time
Felix was, in my opinion, way more hyped up than Santana, so even though their cases are somewhat similar, he gets a bump for the popularity factor
I’m still pissed about Oswalt
He only had 8 years where he was a full time starter (granted, it was a dominant 8 years overall) and he was injured for part of 3 of those years. There was one additional full season he missed, and when he came back for his last season, he was pretty bad.
So, you’re really talking about 4 full years of great pitching, and 3 years of less than 30 starts with one of those being bad. Longevity is very valued for the Hall and Hernandez is the poster boy for that, Santana isn’t.
At this point the only Hernandez I want to see in the Hall of Fame is Keith
IMO, neither belong in the HOF.
I think they should both be in. But I’m biased for Felix.
Felix has a perfect game. Santana doesn’t. I don’t think that is the reason alone, but it is something that is not listed in that particular stat sheet.
Santana’s short career led to countless comparisons with Koufax which is a brutal comparison (postseason greatness, 4 no-hitters, 300+ K seasons).
Not only was the ballot more stacked for Santana but there were a lot more recent SPs who’d been voted in. It’s a ghost town now until Greinke is up. Still 5 years until Kershaw, Scherzer, Verlander hit.
David Cone and Kevin Brown were better candidates than Felix too but pitched in a HOF-rich era.
Santana is my « exhibit A » for why hall of fame voting for starting pitchers is wrong. Any criteria that excludes Santana is flawed.
Neither should.
Santana was HoF eligible in 2018. That’s almost a decade ago, and the recognition that starting pitcher usage was different than it had been in the past had not fully set in at that point.
If Santana was on the ballot now, I’m pretty sure he would get in.
Johan Santana erasure will not be tolerated. I remember watching the guy pitch, he was the best at using the circle change since Pedro before him, just a nasty pitch when used correctly
I would take 9 years (2002-2010) of Santana over the entire 22year run of Bert Blyleven. The HOF voters place too much emphasis on lengthen of career and compiled stats.
felix is about as short of a career as i would consider for the hall. santana’s is roughly 75% of felix’s